Decades ago, I had a very senior member of a first nations tribal council explain something about a similar problem his people had faced. "It is simple, looking at it from basic principles alone, we had an inadequate immigration policy." Our current situation is not the first and eventually we will see the clearest explanation has not changed. We could take Cooperatopia to heart and then recognize that a tolerant society will eventually fall to an intolerant one. There are no exceptions.
A body in health with strong immunity can survive things that would kill the unwell. The West has made itself sick. It's as if we have scurvy and require massive amounts of vitamin C. Let's find oranges and deliver them. Thanks Max, and Pat. Both of you are doing it.
My rational thoughts are clouded by my family's experiences as unwanted immigrants from Eastern Europe in the late 19th and early 20th century. They came with no money to speak of, no English. Fleeing war, the Czar's draft, pogroms and other physical threats, starvation, etc. Several of my relatives were bona fide criminals: gamblers, thieves, and con artists. Some were illiterate. And hundreds of thousands like them came, flooding the East Coast cities and creating huge urban ghettos of poverty and crime. Some research:
1881–1890: Over 8.2m arrived, primarily from N and W Europe (e.g., Germany, Ireland, and the United Kingdom).
1891–1900: Roughly 8m arrived. This decade marked a distinct demographic shift, as the majority of newcomers began arriving from Central, Eastern, and Southern Europe (such as Italy, Russia, and Poland).
1901–1910: Nearly 8.8m people arrived during this peak decade of European immigration, with 1907 seeing a record-breaking 1.28 million admissions.
I've no idea how slaves, indentured servants, prisoners of war, and people like my mom and grandmother who illegally snuck in from Canada, bypassing immigration officials and border guards, were counted. Or the folks from other continents and ethnicities. Many immigrant groups were consider sub-human at the time they arrived - how did we survive the Irish invasion? My family thought it was a good deal not to be murdered, en masse, just for being Jewish.
Is it the sheer numbers?, Even though a pretty constant percentage?
And, as I understand it, the rules were looser in some cases, stricter in others.
Perhaps one big difference? There was no big safety net. We worked struggled, we starved, we died. My grandmother worked two shifts, six days a week just to pay for rent, and my mom was hospitalized for malnutrition. My uncle became a hobo at age 12, working jobs now forbidden to children. Meaning, no one came with an expectation the government would help them. Except some thought the streets were paved with gold.
So, I've heard your arguments many times. I don't know enough to agree or disagree. Just pondering.
Pondering is good. The circumstances are indeed very different from the days of Ellis Island. There used to be both a strong culture and strong incentives to assimilate. Not so today, especially if you can immediately sign up to be the ward of the state and therefore a party. Or get millions starting Learing Centers and Hospice Phantoms. If one gets a chance to visit London today, you might think you're in Lehore. I used to buy into more abstract cosmopolitan liberalism, but I no longer wish to ride with uncontextualized *principles* into a ditch while freedom's enemies lie in wait.
Someone told me once that it took two generations minimum - 40 years - for assimilation to work. Growing up in Chicago in the 1950s and 1960s, it was still a big city of little ethnic villages. My mom said it took seven languages to buy bread in her neighborhood in the 1920s and 1930s. It is true that folks who showed up with the entrepreneurial gene or the strong let's cooperate gene (Scandinavia) did better. Having worked with new immigrants in NYC in 1969 I can say that some came equipped, and some didn't.
To protect life, space, property, etc. seems to be the solution. I love that idea. I’m currently working on a PhD research project along those lines. I’m not sure I’m ready for manifesting the way forward with a tangible project or product yet. I love the idea that any social contract needs my explicit consent!!! Without that, we play in the dominators field.
Decades ago, I had a very senior member of a first nations tribal council explain something about a similar problem his people had faced. "It is simple, looking at it from basic principles alone, we had an inadequate immigration policy." Our current situation is not the first and eventually we will see the clearest explanation has not changed. We could take Cooperatopia to heart and then recognize that a tolerant society will eventually fall to an intolerant one. There are no exceptions.
A body in health with strong immunity can survive things that would kill the unwell. The West has made itself sick. It's as if we have scurvy and require massive amounts of vitamin C. Let's find oranges and deliver them. Thanks Max, and Pat. Both of you are doing it.
My rational thoughts are clouded by my family's experiences as unwanted immigrants from Eastern Europe in the late 19th and early 20th century. They came with no money to speak of, no English. Fleeing war, the Czar's draft, pogroms and other physical threats, starvation, etc. Several of my relatives were bona fide criminals: gamblers, thieves, and con artists. Some were illiterate. And hundreds of thousands like them came, flooding the East Coast cities and creating huge urban ghettos of poverty and crime. Some research:
1881–1890: Over 8.2m arrived, primarily from N and W Europe (e.g., Germany, Ireland, and the United Kingdom).
1891–1900: Roughly 8m arrived. This decade marked a distinct demographic shift, as the majority of newcomers began arriving from Central, Eastern, and Southern Europe (such as Italy, Russia, and Poland).
1901–1910: Nearly 8.8m people arrived during this peak decade of European immigration, with 1907 seeing a record-breaking 1.28 million admissions.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/immigrant-population-over-time
I've no idea how slaves, indentured servants, prisoners of war, and people like my mom and grandmother who illegally snuck in from Canada, bypassing immigration officials and border guards, were counted. Or the folks from other continents and ethnicities. Many immigrant groups were consider sub-human at the time they arrived - how did we survive the Irish invasion? My family thought it was a good deal not to be murdered, en masse, just for being Jewish.
Is it the sheer numbers?, Even though a pretty constant percentage?
And, as I understand it, the rules were looser in some cases, stricter in others.
Perhaps one big difference? There was no big safety net. We worked struggled, we starved, we died. My grandmother worked two shifts, six days a week just to pay for rent, and my mom was hospitalized for malnutrition. My uncle became a hobo at age 12, working jobs now forbidden to children. Meaning, no one came with an expectation the government would help them. Except some thought the streets were paved with gold.
So, I've heard your arguments many times. I don't know enough to agree or disagree. Just pondering.
Pondering is good. The circumstances are indeed very different from the days of Ellis Island. There used to be both a strong culture and strong incentives to assimilate. Not so today, especially if you can immediately sign up to be the ward of the state and therefore a party. Or get millions starting Learing Centers and Hospice Phantoms. If one gets a chance to visit London today, you might think you're in Lehore. I used to buy into more abstract cosmopolitan liberalism, but I no longer wish to ride with uncontextualized *principles* into a ditch while freedom's enemies lie in wait.
Someone told me once that it took two generations minimum - 40 years - for assimilation to work. Growing up in Chicago in the 1950s and 1960s, it was still a big city of little ethnic villages. My mom said it took seven languages to buy bread in her neighborhood in the 1920s and 1930s. It is true that folks who showed up with the entrepreneurial gene or the strong let's cooperate gene (Scandinavia) did better. Having worked with new immigrants in NYC in 1969 I can say that some came equipped, and some didn't.
To protect life, space, property, etc. seems to be the solution. I love that idea. I’m currently working on a PhD research project along those lines. I’m not sure I’m ready for manifesting the way forward with a tangible project or product yet. I love the idea that any social contract needs my explicit consent!!! Without that, we play in the dominators field.