While I was reading the motto "E pluribus Unum" came to mind. By the time I finished, I found ot about that it was incomplete. "E Pluribus Unum. Ex Uno Plures." - Fascinating.
A few questions/observations per the whole Grey Robes formulation:
--it seems you envision Grey Robes mostly as a minority righteous-elite group...juxtaposed against Unified "Red & Blue Extremes" that are unified -- but opposed by the righteous Grey Robes.
--If so, I wonder if this right. It seems to me that most Reds & Blues are NOT part of the minority Red/Blue Extremes?
--What IF...most Red & Blues were NOT so unified Extremes...but just defaults to "better than the alternative" -- More opposed to Trump or Biden...but zealous for neither?
--Suspect many of them would think THEY are more Grey Robes without options...than Zealous Red or Blues.
--Would this not make the Grey Robes More/Larger than the Red/Blue Extremists? Imagine a Blue-Circle on the Left with a Red Circle just to its Right -- With a 3rd circle overlapping both but excluding the Extreme Radical-Left-Blues & the splinter Radical-Extreme Right-Reds. (colors of course bass-ackwards)
--maybe your conception of the Grey Robes is but One unique Option for a minority Grey Robe Sub-Group? Certainly there could be multiple "Moral-Centers" for the surprisingly large Grey Robe group -- some far closer to 1950s--1985 early American Empire (Trumpism) -- or FDR New-Dealism than our more fragmented extreme era?
Regardless...I still believe the REAL challenge for our Secular-Revival of Jeffersonianism...is to fine a Moral Center that will hold against the lust for Empire/Control. Judaism hasn't done any better than Catholicism or Protestantism...or Buddhism. Given the decline of the West/US and the Rise of a few East and South alternatives...you/We might just get Tribalism...and a small Free & Prosperous Tribe of Grey Robe Jeffersonians with a moral center that Holds for awhile -- or till a bigger Tribe wants their chips?
My guess...it could get messy the next 4-20 yrs...& we'll be lucky to avoid Big & Small wars of Desperation as the US/West tries to hold on to their Empire.
This is an important, actually vital, set of questions. So I want to give them careful replies:
> We are a minority but want to recruit from the other tribes. We see the need to make a distinction between ourselves and the traditional tribes so that there is a membrane there. That said, you're right in that most Reds and Blues are what we might call "fatalists," who are either mostly apathetic or feel like "you can't fight city hall." Some come out for a rally or whatever, but go back to work and Netflix after Election Day. I hope some of those can be transformed.
> Opposition to Trump or Biden is perfectly understandable, but it is mostly a passive opinion until Election Day. It also happens to be something I share in the world of mere political opinion. But what distinguishes the Gray Robes is there dedication to active practice, particularly practice that is beyond politics. Activism, by the way, is fine, but it's just more politics. Active practice is about entrepreneurial and communitarian means, which political partisans don't really do.
> I HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT that people come to see themselves as people without options, who come to the Grey Robes to discover a profound array of new options they hadn't seen before. But in a sense, we're just making this stuff up as we go.
> In terms of moral-centers, there is a paradox in that we are dogmatic pluralists. In other words, we must be dedicated to creating our own Utopias in small niches, but embrace the dogma of Pluralism through Polycentricity, which is a fancier way of talking about federalism, though its additive.
> OUR revival of Jeffersonianism need not be merely secular or merely Jeffersonian. One of the important aspects of the Grey Robes HAS to be theological exploration together, as it was for the Freemasons who could also be Christians or Jews or Hindus. My hope, and it is but a hope, is that the religious will hold fast to the secular doctrine and integrate it with their fundamental faith. As I joked, I would love to borrow the fellowship hall at the Church on Thursday, but not on Sunday, of course. Our order should mirror the Ideal of America, which is free people of different faiths finding the courage to fight for our kids' futures.
> But that something like this could have such gravity so as to unite others, despite differences? The Freemasons did a fairly good job of that, particularly in the British Empire. My hope is that this can be a haven for people amid the messiness you see in the next 4-20 years, but also a place to catalyze free men and women to act so as to dissolve the Empire.
> Our mantra, which I stole from Michael Strong via Michaelangelo, is "Criticize by Creating." I might fail. But I can only believe this is a potent use of my time.
Now your talking Max, good job, great article!
While I was reading the motto "E pluribus Unum" came to mind. By the time I finished, I found ot about that it was incomplete. "E Pluribus Unum. Ex Uno Plures." - Fascinating.
A few questions/observations per the whole Grey Robes formulation:
--it seems you envision Grey Robes mostly as a minority righteous-elite group...juxtaposed against Unified "Red & Blue Extremes" that are unified -- but opposed by the righteous Grey Robes.
--If so, I wonder if this right. It seems to me that most Reds & Blues are NOT part of the minority Red/Blue Extremes?
--What IF...most Red & Blues were NOT so unified Extremes...but just defaults to "better than the alternative" -- More opposed to Trump or Biden...but zealous for neither?
--Suspect many of them would think THEY are more Grey Robes without options...than Zealous Red or Blues.
--Would this not make the Grey Robes More/Larger than the Red/Blue Extremists? Imagine a Blue-Circle on the Left with a Red Circle just to its Right -- With a 3rd circle overlapping both but excluding the Extreme Radical-Left-Blues & the splinter Radical-Extreme Right-Reds. (colors of course bass-ackwards)
--maybe your conception of the Grey Robes is but One unique Option for a minority Grey Robe Sub-Group? Certainly there could be multiple "Moral-Centers" for the surprisingly large Grey Robe group -- some far closer to 1950s--1985 early American Empire (Trumpism) -- or FDR New-Dealism than our more fragmented extreme era?
Regardless...I still believe the REAL challenge for our Secular-Revival of Jeffersonianism...is to fine a Moral Center that will hold against the lust for Empire/Control. Judaism hasn't done any better than Catholicism or Protestantism...or Buddhism. Given the decline of the West/US and the Rise of a few East and South alternatives...you/We might just get Tribalism...and a small Free & Prosperous Tribe of Grey Robe Jeffersonians with a moral center that Holds for awhile -- or till a bigger Tribe wants their chips?
My guess...it could get messy the next 4-20 yrs...& we'll be lucky to avoid Big & Small wars of Desperation as the US/West tries to hold on to their Empire.
This is an important, actually vital, set of questions. So I want to give them careful replies:
> We are a minority but want to recruit from the other tribes. We see the need to make a distinction between ourselves and the traditional tribes so that there is a membrane there. That said, you're right in that most Reds and Blues are what we might call "fatalists," who are either mostly apathetic or feel like "you can't fight city hall." Some come out for a rally or whatever, but go back to work and Netflix after Election Day. I hope some of those can be transformed.
> Opposition to Trump or Biden is perfectly understandable, but it is mostly a passive opinion until Election Day. It also happens to be something I share in the world of mere political opinion. But what distinguishes the Gray Robes is there dedication to active practice, particularly practice that is beyond politics. Activism, by the way, is fine, but it's just more politics. Active practice is about entrepreneurial and communitarian means, which political partisans don't really do.
> I HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT that people come to see themselves as people without options, who come to the Grey Robes to discover a profound array of new options they hadn't seen before. But in a sense, we're just making this stuff up as we go.
> In terms of moral-centers, there is a paradox in that we are dogmatic pluralists. In other words, we must be dedicated to creating our own Utopias in small niches, but embrace the dogma of Pluralism through Polycentricity, which is a fancier way of talking about federalism, though its additive.
> OUR revival of Jeffersonianism need not be merely secular or merely Jeffersonian. One of the important aspects of the Grey Robes HAS to be theological exploration together, as it was for the Freemasons who could also be Christians or Jews or Hindus. My hope, and it is but a hope, is that the religious will hold fast to the secular doctrine and integrate it with their fundamental faith. As I joked, I would love to borrow the fellowship hall at the Church on Thursday, but not on Sunday, of course. Our order should mirror the Ideal of America, which is free people of different faiths finding the courage to fight for our kids' futures.
> But that something like this could have such gravity so as to unite others, despite differences? The Freemasons did a fairly good job of that, particularly in the British Empire. My hope is that this can be a haven for people amid the messiness you see in the next 4-20 years, but also a place to catalyze free men and women to act so as to dissolve the Empire.
> Our mantra, which I stole from Michael Strong via Michaelangelo, is "Criticize by Creating." I might fail. But I can only believe this is a potent use of my time.
oophs..."YOUR" Secular-Revival of Jeffersonianism ;-)