Seems like Rosenberg is unaware of the well-documented distinctions between dominance status and prestige status. Dominance status is ubiquitous in social species, and many of his arguments do apply here. Prestige hierarchies or status, OTOH, can be extremely positive sum when aimed in socially constructive directions such as who is most honest, most reliable, best under pressure, and so on. I would even suggest that larger scale cooperation depends upon prestige hierarchies and status.
I love how you brought up this topic. Humans are like status-seeking machines. It's built right into our evolutionary core. But when you mentioned the car example, something took over my mind. It was an old book called 'Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind,' and I just realized that this exercise of getting on certain category pre-installs in people's heads is really similar to that process.
Another thing I'd like to add is to drop comparison in our own minds. That's possible. Osho turned off the automatic comparison I grew up with by using a simple example that has stuck with me since then: 'An old wise man once challenged an almighty king. The challenge was simple: the old man drew a line in the sand and then told the king to make it bigger without touching it. Using all his resources and greatest genius, the king gave up after many attempts. That's when the old man got close to the line and drew another, smaller line.' THAT'S WHEN IT HIT ME. JEEZ. Bigger, smaller, better, worse—it was all in my mind. Existence just IS. But our mind only comprehends things in comparison to other things.
And before I finish this, I just realized that... Status creates incentives... A university degree and a title are quite appealing forces for most people. I wonder how we can break that spell for other people.
People may seek *status* directly, for its own sake, but acquire *stature* as a byproduct of commitment and effort in something else. (Of course, both are involved in achievement. The ego has to die in any creative endeavor, but then comes back and takes credit for it! And the ego does usually have to be pacified for it to agree to die again and again,)
Thinking that humanity must “transcend status” completely ignores the pivotal role that status plays in promoting competition, without it how many would like drive?
I’m immediately reminded of the conversation over gender in “Ex Machina.” Is it possible to even think within a sight picture without status (or gender)? I think the answer is a resounding “no.” Transcending status would entail the omission of respect for elders, or parents, and would therefore weaken the development of the species.
Largely (perhaps not completely) regurgitating one central poison of Egalitarian Democracy. But even here we vote for the "best" candidate available option to us. For my surgery...give the BEST surgeon in the HIERARCHY! The BEST engineer, builder, point/shooting guard!!! Envy is a damnable root of Egalitarian Democracy...the great Leveler. But the men/troops revered the Superiority of Mars Robert, General Washington...as we Rightly do great/exceptional artists! Give me Lennon/McCartney to write songs for me...rather than tone-deaf rubes...[who are exceptional brick-masons]. Sadly, we Modern to often tear down the exceptional with Envy...rather than embrace and celebrate the gifted...Hierarchy!!!
Seems like Rosenberg is unaware of the well-documented distinctions between dominance status and prestige status. Dominance status is ubiquitous in social species, and many of his arguments do apply here. Prestige hierarchies or status, OTOH, can be extremely positive sum when aimed in socially constructive directions such as who is most honest, most reliable, best under pressure, and so on. I would even suggest that larger scale cooperation depends upon prestige hierarchies and status.
I love how you brought up this topic. Humans are like status-seeking machines. It's built right into our evolutionary core. But when you mentioned the car example, something took over my mind. It was an old book called 'Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind,' and I just realized that this exercise of getting on certain category pre-installs in people's heads is really similar to that process.
Another thing I'd like to add is to drop comparison in our own minds. That's possible. Osho turned off the automatic comparison I grew up with by using a simple example that has stuck with me since then: 'An old wise man once challenged an almighty king. The challenge was simple: the old man drew a line in the sand and then told the king to make it bigger without touching it. Using all his resources and greatest genius, the king gave up after many attempts. That's when the old man got close to the line and drew another, smaller line.' THAT'S WHEN IT HIT ME. JEEZ. Bigger, smaller, better, worse—it was all in my mind. Existence just IS. But our mind only comprehends things in comparison to other things.
And before I finish this, I just realized that... Status creates incentives... A university degree and a title are quite appealing forces for most people. I wonder how we can break that spell for other people.
Maybe he is talking about the difference between "status" and "stature" contemplated here.
https://amba12.com/2019/10/18/status-and-stature/
People may seek *status* directly, for its own sake, but acquire *stature* as a byproduct of commitment and effort in something else. (Of course, both are involved in achievement. The ego has to die in any creative endeavor, but then comes back and takes credit for it! And the ego does usually have to be pacified for it to agree to die again and again,)
This is a good point and good post. Framed this way, it makes sense.
> Status is a person’s condition, position, or standing relative to that of others.
Hierarchies aren't necessarily bad, so status within a hierarchy isn't necessarily bad, either.
Thinking that humanity must “transcend status” completely ignores the pivotal role that status plays in promoting competition, without it how many would like drive?
I’m immediately reminded of the conversation over gender in “Ex Machina.” Is it possible to even think within a sight picture without status (or gender)? I think the answer is a resounding “no.” Transcending status would entail the omission of respect for elders, or parents, and would therefore weaken the development of the species.
Only immature men and resentful women have problems with status hierarchies.
The good news about status hierarchies is that there are many types of status available and many hierarchies to climb.
Largely (perhaps not completely) regurgitating one central poison of Egalitarian Democracy. But even here we vote for the "best" candidate available option to us. For my surgery...give the BEST surgeon in the HIERARCHY! The BEST engineer, builder, point/shooting guard!!! Envy is a damnable root of Egalitarian Democracy...the great Leveler. But the men/troops revered the Superiority of Mars Robert, General Washington...as we Rightly do great/exceptional artists! Give me Lennon/McCartney to write songs for me...rather than tone-deaf rubes...[who are exceptional brick-masons]. Sadly, we Modern to often tear down the exceptional with Envy...rather than embrace and celebrate the gifted...Hierarchy!!!
Like asking canines to stop wagging!